push steer Vs counter steering

There is no need to agree with you, you are wrong. He is leaned over too far. Push steer used too aggressively can and did do that. The sparks are not comming from his enormous crash bars. The sparks are coming from his floor boards; in the second picture the pipes and frame that will lift the tires off the pavement.

That is push steer fucked up. He wants to go right, he pushes the right handle bar too much to make the bike lean too far right, too much, way too much! The first photo is too late to stand the bike up by counter steer, and hit the brakes hard. It could have saved him. Someone may have been braging to him what a wonderfull aggressive rider can go 100mph a round a sweeper, ect, ect. Someone may have called him names, someone may have wished it on him, NOT ME.

Okay guys, stop. Neither one of you is right. Those photos do not tell the story. The angle of the camera is wrong. You can't tell the camber of the tire, and you can't tell when a wheel lifted. If we had the video, maybe we could analyze it, but as of now it's just a series of only two amusing photographs of somebody in the middle of fucking up.

I shut this thread down once over a year ago because you guys couldn't be civil in the discussion. Don't make me do it again.

I don't think civility is the issue here. I think there is strong disagreement and strong conviction on both sides. Personally, unless I just scanned over and did not pay attention, I have seen no name calling or mud throwing. I have seen strong disagreement and stubborness. My feeling is a forum should be a place for open discussion, whether we agree or disagree on the subject. My questions were; What is the origin of this photo? Were any forum members present during this mishap? If not then it only leaves room for speculation and not for fact.

Inane arguments over two pictures that don't tell even a tiny part of the picture can be debated on both sides until we all die of laughter. For all we know there's a dead possum with avon tire tracks across it's back about 30 ft behind where the first pic was snapped.

Imperical evidence of a flaw in riding style that caused that wreck cannot be determined from those two photos, and this back and forth "you're wrong, I'm right" is just juvenile. I never meant to imply that civility had broken down, althought that's what I said. Should have implied a breakdown in maturity.

Personally, I think he was using Cheng Shin tires and one of them just let go. Damn Chinese. Wait a minute I am running them on one of my bikes. To our wonderful tire importer, let me say this, "so solly."

Stealership Honda of Hopkinsville talked me in to Cheng Shin tires and Champion spark plugs too. To beat that, they used a front Cheng Shin Baracuda 140-90-16 with a strait groove in the rear. That tire lasted a whole 2,000 miles. I had to buy a lawnmower spark plug wrench to get the Champions out, but they wern't causing problems. The front Cheng Shin lasted some 20,000 miles with no trouble.

"two amusing photographs ....middle of fucking up....strong disagreement and strong conviction ......dead possum with avon tire tracks across it's back about 30 ft behind where the first pic was snapped....."

More plauseable than reality.

If you could keep your buddy from having a fuck up like that, wouldn't you?

The picture comes from a site that has pictures like that submitted to it all the time, it updates Thursday night, it is Austrailian, I have linked to it before, others have gotten material from it. I could research it, but not this week. Brandon White is still dead, a year last April, despite sites that say otherwise, that was speed. The trucking company doesn't want you to know their tail lights were burned out.

Okay guys, stop. Neither one of you is right. Those photos do not tell the story. The angle of the camera is wrong. You can't tell the camber of the tire, and you can't tell when a wheel lifted. If we had the video, maybe we could analyze it, but as of now it's just a series of only two amusing photographs of somebody in the middle of fucking up.

I shut this thread down once over a year ago because you guys couldn't be civil in the discussion. Don't make me do it again.

That photo does nothing to prove or disprove counter steer or push steer, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Simply stated, if you are not using counter steering you are crashing. Ron I seem to remember you going for a ride after another discussion about counter steering and agreeing that you do it without thinking about it. My only contention is that crawfords comment that counter steering is only for the track is incorrect and very misleading. Talk to the guys who counter steer for a living and they will tell you that counter steering is the one survival tool that they would never want to be without on both the street and the track. So if you feel the need to "SHUT IT DOWN'" just to make yourself feel happy, have at it.

As long as this discussion stays a discussion and does not turn into name calling B.S. I feel it should be left alone.

Now, if it does go bad then whoever is doing it will be dealt with.

I may not agree with some of what is being posted but that is what a discussion is all about.

Tugs, that is my point exactly. I mean, this is a discussion forum and there has been no name calling, no mud slinging. Why use threats to shut it down. We all have our opinions, we all have our disagreements

Hell, I haven't visited this forum in months and this issue is STILL being batted around? C'mon!

Counter steering is not a matter of technique. It's a matter of geometry and physics. :puke::grenade:

NG

Stop clouding the issue with facts!

Stop clouding the issue with facts!

Facts are just data... TRUTH, Grasshopper, TRUTH is what we seek... The Dancing Wu-Li Masters insist upon it!

Dancing Wu-Li Masters??????

Dancing Wu-Li Masters??????


A great book by Gary Zukav... The Dancing Wu-Li Masters: An Overview of the New Physics. Only slightly less confusing than Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance... Maybe we can hijack this thread and countersteer it in another direction?

NG

Maybe we can hijack this thread and countersteer it in another direction?

NG

Well . . . that HAS happened before.

Run with it, NG.

It's easy, open your hands, push with your right, you lean and turn right! Same works the other way. What'cha arguin' about? terminology? You can do it on a 10 speed too. If you look t gyroscopes, they do work the same way.

It's easy, open your hands, push with your right, you lean and turn right! Same works the other way. What'cha arguin' about? terminology? You can do it on a 10 speed too. If you look t gyroscopes, they do work the same way.

Great into post! Welcome to the forum. It's easy to forget, most of us can ride a bike and it works pretty much the same steering wise as a motorcycle.