PDA

View Full Version : Helmet safety - law



Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

bentangel
09-06-2007, 12:33 PM
3141

Italian opera star Luciano Pavarotti wears a Chinese opera helmet presented to him after a news conference in Beijing in this December 8, 2005 file photo. Pavarotti, hailed by many as the greatest tenor of his generation, died in the early hours of September 6, 2007. He was 71.

Because of Pavarotti people (who normally would't) became aware & interested in opera.

bufordtpisser
09-06-2007, 01:02 PM
How did a topic as important as helmet safety get hijacked by opera?? Come on people.

c.crawford
09-06-2007, 11:31 PM
Buffie, before you run out to buy a Chinese opera helmet, or a WWII German storm trooper helmet replica, --they are not DOT certified.

jrbooe
09-07-2007, 04:57 AM
Well said Buf but you know, you really need to quit holding back and tell us how you really feel

GRB
09-07-2007, 06:47 AM
Buford. You present an interesting argument. I've heard the same argements against seat belt laws and admittantly there have been a few folks actually killed by seatbelts. But there have been far more saved by them and I can't help believe helmets are the same. The below article by the MSF is very informative concerning helmets.

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/helmet_CSI.pdf

Also take a look at the link below showing the steady increase of motorcycle deaths in Florida since inactment of the helmet exemption.

http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/hsmvdocs/CF2004/PG14.htm

By the way, before you can ride without a lid in Florida certain conditions must be met.

http://motorcycles.hsmv.state.fl.us/helmet.cfm

I guess that's enough for you to look at for now. Enjoy the web sites.

C'Ya

bufordtpisser
09-07-2007, 07:39 AM
Buford. You present an interesting argument. I've heard the same argements against seat belt laws and admittantly there have been a few folks actually killed by seatbelts. But there have been far more saved by them and I can't help believe helmets are the same. The below article by the MSF is very informative concerning helmets.

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/helmet_CSI.pdf

Also take a look at the link below showing the steady increase of motorcycle deaths in Florida since inactment of the helmet exemption.

http://www.hsmv.state.fl.us/hsmvdocs/CF2004/PG14.htm

By the way, before you can ride without a lid in Florida certain conditions must be met.

http://motorcycles.hsmv.state.fl.us/helmet.cfm

I guess that's enough for you to look at for now. Enjoy the web sites.

C'Ya

But what the Florida study did not take into account and it has been debunked already, is that there was also a marked increase in motorcycle riders during that same period of time. And the majority of those riders were young and inexperienced. And as far as DOT approved helmets go, their testing methods, if they even test them at all anymore, are very archaic. I am not saying that people should not wear helmets. I am just saying that it should be the riders choice. I also believe that it should be up to the individual as to whether or not they wear a seat belt. Do seat belts save lives, sure they do. Do they also take lives, sure they do. But then again, so does alcohol and cigarette's. They do not legislate that I can not drink, or enjoy a cigarette. And they kill many times more people than not wearing a helmet or seat belt ever has. We as tax payers, pay more for the health care of drinkers and smokers then we do towards the upkeep of vegetabilized helmet-less or seatbelt-less drivers. Those arguments don't hold water anymore.

I will state again, I DO WEAR A HELMET. But I choose to. And when I choose not to, I don't. Just like you may choose to get on your bike, ride to the pub, and smoke a cigarette while enjoying a brew. More than likely you will get right back on that bike and ride it home. Helmet or not, you are a lot less safe than me riding unimpaired without a helmet.

FX
09-07-2007, 07:53 AM
You must have an old or incorrect study Buford, cause you are wrong.

I posted the most recent data just recently.

This is not about freedom and I resent that ABATE and the likes keep telling bikers to repeat this hog wash blindly. "Freedom" is a great buzz word and talking point.

This is about responsibility. Freedom is not free and it's not my "right" as a tax payer to fix your head when your 20K of insurance runs out.

bufordtpisser
09-07-2007, 09:15 AM
Just like it is not my right as a tax payer to not fix the ills of drunk drivers and cigarette smokers.

Statistics can say anything that the author of a report wants them to say. They can skew the numbers for one side or the other depending who is funding the research and or report. I am not a member of ABATE, or any other group. I work in the medical industry and I get my information from the people who clean up these messes each and every day. You can talk the responsibility word all you want, but unless you add the other factors into the fray, it means nothing. The majority of the people who are killed or maimed while riding helmet-less were also riding impaired. Or were killed by someone who was driving impaired. Some of you guys are very vocal about this helmet thing, why don't you get vocal about the driving impaired thing. That would save a whole lot more lives and create a lot less public burden than trying to slap a piece of fiberglass with a little bit of foam inside it on someones head. Lets take some of that saved money and create helmets that are safe and comfortable, and do not impair your hearing and vision. Lets take some more of that saved money and educate people about sharing the road with bikers. And lets then take some more of that money and educate bikers to the virtues of driving unimpaired.

c.crawford
09-07-2007, 10:14 AM
That was a very good post GRB. The links are good and good reading, factual, not opionated. All you need is one more post and more options in Rider Info become available to you.

Buffie was wrong about oil additives too.

bufordtpisser
09-07-2007, 10:20 AM
This was copied directly from the MSF publication, and is almost exactly what I have stated in my posts.

"Helmet use is not a
“cure-all” for motorcycle safety, but in a crash, a helmet can help
protect your brain, your face, and your life.
Combined with other protective gear, rider-education courses,proper
licensing and public awareness, the use of helmets and protective
gear is one way to reduce injury."

I am just trying to point out that those who say helmet use is a cure all are wrong.

bufordtpisser
09-07-2007, 10:27 AM
And the information in the second link does not show a comparison of the differing numbers of motorcycles registered or the amount of miles driven annually. There is a lot of pertinent information left off of that chart. If the amount of motorcycles registered, and miles driven go up, then we can rightfully expect that the number of accidents would go up accordingly.
Just as if the age and experience level go down the amount of injuries and or deaths would be expected to go up..

Let me add this though......... KIDS, WEAR YOUR HELMETS. While they may not save your life in a very bad crash, they very well may minimize your injuries in a minor one.

FX
09-07-2007, 10:29 AM
Well, now Bruford, those facts sound more like the the new data.

My disagreement was with young drivers. It's more the 40 and up crowd getting a bike for the first time pushing the numbers up.

I am not arguing as to whether helmets are a valid safety measure compared to stopping drunks or making cage driver wear seat belts.

My problem is with this freedom rhetoric that is used to steer the debate in to emotion.

Driving is not a right, so we can stop right there.

Secondly, freedom is not free. I resent people saying having to wear a helmet is an infringement on your rights. That's just pure bullshit.

When one's right infringes on another, it's not gonna work. Million dollar head injuries drive up taxes and health care rates. FACT.

$20,000.00 insurance is not enough insurance for a head injury. FACT.

Drunks and helmets are mutually exclusive. FACT.

Seat belt, drunk and freedom arguments here are to create an emotion upheaval to cloud the issue. It's called the paid lobby.

People make big money as lobbyists. And what better platform to pick your pockets then protecting your freedom?

bufordtpisser
09-07-2007, 10:49 AM
Well, now Bruford, those facts sound more like the the new data.

My disagreement was with young drivers. It's more the 40 and up crowd getting a bike for the first time pushing the numbers up.

I am not arguing as to whether helmets are a valid safety measure compared to stopping drunks or making cage driver wear seat belts.

My problem is with this freedom rhetoric that is used to steer the debate in to emotion.

Driving is not a right, so we can stop right there.

Secondly, freedom is not free. I resent people saying having to wear a helmet is an infringement on your rights. That's just pure bullshit.

When one's right infringes on another, it's not gonna work. Million dollar head injuries drive up taxes and health care rates. FACT.

$20,000.00 insurance is not enough insurance for a head injury. FACT.

Drunks and helmets are mutually exclusive. FACT.

Seat belt, drunk and freedom arguments here are to create an emotion upheaval to cloud the issue. It's called the paid lobby.

People make big money as lobbyists. And what better platform to pick your pockets then protecting your freedom?

With the exception of drunks and helmets being mutually exclusive. Because if you take out the drunk related deaths whether or not a helmet was worn, the numbers come way down.

And while the 40 and over crown first timers may be an issue in Florida, more urbanized areas are showing a sharp increase in the younger, inexperienced, unprotected, uneducated drivers in those overall numbers. And the majority of the younger drivers who do get killed are helmeted. In PA at least, you have to be over 21 and have 2 years of driving experience on a motorcycle to go helmet-less.

thebighop
09-07-2007, 11:11 AM
We don't have the "Freedom" of choice here in Michigan...I have worn a helmet all of the 40+ years I have ridden motor cycles...starting way back on a mini-bike. It's like second nature to me after so many years...
It has kept me from having more serious injuries, from spills while riding dirt bikes to being ran off the road by a truck on my Sportster, back in 1970...Fortunately, that was the last time I ever had to test the theory of a helmets protective abilities.
I have rode in states without mandatory helmet laws and still wore the helmet, because I noticed that the cage drivers in those states were just as irresponsible toward motorcyclists as they are here at home....and that scares the crap outta me where ever I ride...
So I opt to be as safe as I can . Given that the chances of surviving an accident without sustaining injury to my noodle are pretty low if I don't wear a helmet...at any speed...It just makes sense to me to wear one...
But then again...it makes sense to me to wear a parachute when I jump out of an airplane...
You can get vented helmets, with fans even and some helmets are pretty comfortable too...That depends on design, and price more than DOT
You can argue about the tax money thing till the cows come home...you're going to pay taxes regardless of how they are spent...so that argument is moot....
The more important thing to do with some of the tax money is educate cagers, and riders alike....
Outlaw cell phone use while driving, and beef up the penalties for cagers that injure or kill a motorcyclist...and build a safer helmet....
By God when Dale Earnhart died from the result of poor restraint and helmet design, they damned sure found a fix in a hurry...because they didn't want another one of their valuable NASCAR drivers to get hurt or die needlessly....
Well, I consider all my brothers and sisters on two wheels to as valuable as a NASCAR driver...and we all deserve to be a safe too.
If you want to ride without a helmet...that's fine by me...just don't ask me to wipe the drool off your chin while you're strapped in your wheel chair waiting for the attendant to come change your diaper...
Oh, and make it equally as hard on a motorcyclist that causes an accident too...drunk or sober.
Education has got to apply to all drivers, regardless if it's on one wheel or 18.

jrbooe
09-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Abate can kiss my ass and as far as the thread hijacking is concerned it is getting really old. It would be nice for once, just to stay on subject

c.crawford
09-10-2007, 02:55 PM
The many years I have ridden I have always chosen to wear a helmet. I am in full support of those who choose not too. Sometimes, and on rare occassions, I may take a very short spin without a helmet. Today I almost chose to do just that but at the last moment I walked back into the house and grabbed my peanut helmet. 5 Miles down the road a very youn, inexperienced, and very stoned 17 year old girl blew the red light at the intersection I was about to go through. I had not gone into the intersection yet and she actually veered right towards me. Subsequently, she did this all in the view of a Lake County deputy. I had to drop the bike, no damage to me or the bike, thank goodness. It just reminded me of why I choose to wear a helmet.

So tell us how you droped a motorcycle without any damage.

What is so bad about being very youn?

How do you know she was stoned?

Finish the story.

jrbooe
09-10-2007, 05:45 PM
A.) The incident occured right in front of a Lake County Florida Deputy so obviously there was an incident report made, thus I know the girl's age and her mental state.
B.) I told the deputy to let her deal with her parents as she was quite concerend that they find out so I figured that would be a much better form of punishment than juvenile hall.
C.) I was moving at a speed of less than 10mph by the intersection of 44 and 452 by the Lake County fairgrouinds. Anyone familiar with that area can tell you there is plenty of sand to buffer when you drop a bike
D.) I laid the bike down on my right knee acting as cushion for the bike.
Hopefully this satisfies those who may want to question this.

jrbooe
09-11-2007, 07:51 PM
Once again, as I rode to Orlando this morning I viewed a tremendous amount of yahoos on scoots that I am not sure if they simply have a death wish, don't care or are just oblivious. What I watched this morning on the way to Orlando and back was an average of, just qucikly guessing, 3 out of 8 riders wearing either shorts or flip flops or a combination of both. Age did not appear to be a factor in this. The age range was from teens to "seasoned" citizens. I have suffered road rash so I chose never to be a victim of it again. Yes denim jeans do tear and yes you can suffer from road rash with them but when sliding down a piece of asphalt lets say 60 feet, wouldn't you feel more comfortable in jeans than in bermuda shorts or cut offs? The lid to no lid ratio was about the same as that of riders wearing "safer" attire as opposed to those wearing shorts or flip flops. I oppose any law requiring helmets. I wear one because I choose to. However, I may not be opposed to a law requiring riders wear long pants.

GRB
09-11-2007, 08:49 PM
Why is it OK for the government to require auto manufacturers to have dozens of safety features and devices on a car for the protection of its occupants but its not OK for the government to require the wearing of helmets for the same reason?

Just wondering!

FX
09-11-2007, 09:26 PM
Try to use logic and the lobbyists will scream freedom to cloud the issue.

I don't want any organization speaking for my freedom while they themselves can't comprehend that freedom is not free.

Nope, freedom is even more expensive than $20K. Choose wisely.