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jimbear56
09-12-2007, 05:03 AM
The argument's both pro and con on the helmet issue will always continue, I live in a mandatory state,NY, and wear one at all times, but when I go to Pa. or NH or some other state that don't have a mandatory law I do at rare times ride without one ,but that is my choice. But the arguments both have some good points and a lot of BS included, it is much like the " loud Pipes save Lives " crap but the helmet issue is much more of a safty issue and of much more importance

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 05:51 AM
According to WESH news this morning the NTSB is proposing to the FLorida Legislature to repeal the helmet law.

FX
09-12-2007, 07:22 AM
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- In the year 2000, then Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, signed off on a law repealing the mandatory use of a helmet for motorcyclists. Tuesday the National Transportation Safety Board voted unanimously to urge every state to enforce a mandatory helmet law.

Currently 20 states require riders to wear helmets.

The subject has forever pitted safety groups against motorcycle rights' groups.

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 07:46 AM
Man, I liked my brief synopsis much better thand yours dude.

thebighop
09-12-2007, 08:36 AM
Although it didn't come from a motorcycle accident...
My wife suffered a closed head injury 27 years ago. She kissed the pavement at approx 70 mph...the injuries are similar to what might result from a motorcycle accident...similar if not identical. She left the vehicle and didn't have any thing to slow her down like a windshield or dash, and didn't have a helmet or any other type of protection...
As a result she now has Epilepsy because of the damage to the circuitry of the brain, blood pressure problems, chronic migraines, balance issues, memory lapse...barely any short term memory, vision troubles...and the list and medications for the problems goes on and on, and increases with time. Each passing year brings on another new symptom from the injury....It's almost like accelerated old age setting in...
Now, let me tell you...it's no picnic being the care giver...It takes a lot of dedication...and time and patience...I don't tell you that seeking any merit for myself...I point it out only to let you know that closed head injuries are a burden to the ones that care for the victim...
BUT...
They are nothing compared to the hell the sufferer bares every hour of every day for the rest of their lives...
I wear a helmet, not because of any law that some state or federal bureau imposes on me...I wear one so I don't end up suffering the same fate as my wife...or worse....
Will a helmet protect you from a life altering injury? Hell no...but it might make the difference between drooling in your Wheaties, or being able to wipe your own behind....

FX
09-12-2007, 09:12 AM
It's really easy to be selfish. Thanks for pointing out how selfish it is to not care about your head, but let those who love you sit in a hospital room for perhaps years, all for your "freedom", watching you die while being fed through a tube. Yeah, that's freedom. :/

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!

I saw a paid lobbyist on TV today. His argument was, I have to pay for medical care for fat people and I don't want to. So the rest of you can suck it up and pay the bill for motorcycle riders to go helmet less and have the funding to stay alive on tubes, at the taxpayers expense while the rest of your family essentially dies with you while they watch you vegetate, so you can ride "free".

Yeah folks, stick with those people, they will set you free. The only thing here is free medical care. (pronounced tax burden or welfare)

How many of you conservatives are willing to compromise your ethics on welfare to have "freedom" and "free" medical care? Seems the lines get blurred when one's self is the beneficiary for most.

Interestingly enough, this lobbyist is insulting his own audience. All of you fat bikers are basically now a double burden to society if you ride without a helmet. After all, as he said, he resents paying for your medical care for obesity, but he wants you to have welfare if you fall off your motorcycle and hit your head without a helmet.

How do you reconcile that ambiguity? He sounds like a moron to me.

GRB
09-12-2007, 11:50 AM
Seems the consensus here is that wearing a helmet is a good thing, so the real question is "Is it OK for the government to legislate safety?" I submit that many folks say yes when it's convenient and no when it's not. Kinda like wanting to have your cake and eat it to. I am very glad that our government legislates safety. We live in the safest society in the history of the planet because of it.

GRB

FX
09-12-2007, 12:34 PM
"A person is smart, people are stupid."

How many times have you seen a smart kids swayed politically in the name of "freedom"?

I liken the tactic of using "freedom" to incite descent to the tactics used to recruit skin heads. I'm not impressed.

I am all for helping a sick person with tax money if they were at least trying to be responsible and come up short.

I can't see my way to supporting someone that says, pay my way if I enjoy my freedom to ignore safety and spend millions so my family can watch me rot as a vegetable. You owe it to me cause fat people get free medical care.

Nope, sorry. This man is not that friggin' stupid.

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 01:04 PM
Back to subject, all I know is I choose to wear a helmet and do so about 99% of the time. It may sound contradictory with the 99% but admittedly, I will run to the store that is a half mile from my house, on occassion, without a helmet. To me, my actions in so doing are contradictory as if you follow the statistics on fatal accidents, most of them occur within 10 miles from home. Maybe it is time to start another poll as we had a couple of years ago about wearing helmets and see if the results are similar to the results from before.

bufordtpisser
09-12-2007, 01:48 PM
I think that his analogy was stupid also. But his point is very well taken. We pay medical bills for fat people, smokers, drunks and all sorts of other people who choose to do something dangerous.

Oh hell, wait a minute here, I just described most of the biker friends that I know. We all do things that are dangerous and can end up making us a burden to society. Why does the helmet issue incite such strong feelings in some people. FX, you drink. And I am pretty sure that at least one time or another you may have chosen to drive after you have had a drink or two. So have I and most likely a lot of the others on here. I don't want to pay for the consequences of those decisions either. But I don't have a choice. In states where they do not have a helmet law, it was more than likely the people who chose to allow bikers to go helmet free. If they do not like it, let them change it. That is there right. They can lobby for change just like the pro choice lobby did to get the helmet laws repealed. Whether or not I am a public burden to you is not a right that you get to choose. Majority rules.

FX
09-12-2007, 02:15 PM
Um, excuse me. The same corporations that make that crap that created these health issues paid doctors and such to say these things were ok even though they knew they were not.

That is a fact with smoking, fast food, and drinking. FACT

P.S. When I wrecked my bike, I went to a private doctor and paid the bill in cash.

I didn't go to the hospital and put it on you or an insurance company. :)

Oh yeah, and my helmet saved me a head injury as I fell off the bike backwards onto my head.

bufordtpisser
09-12-2007, 02:34 PM
Um, excuse me. The same corporations that make that crap that created these health issues paid doctors and such to say these things were ok even though they knew they were not.

That is a fact with smoking, fast food, and drinking. FACT

P.S. When I wrecked my bike, I went to a private doctor and paid the bill in cash.

I didn't go to the hospital and put it on you or an insurance company. :)

Oh yeah, and my helmet saved me a head injury as I fell off the bike backwards onto my head.

Is it then possible that the insurance companies and helmet manufacturers are the ones paying the doctors to say these things now?? There have been study after study after study done that have seemed to prove the so called facts in both directions.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, I wear a helmet 99.9% of the time. I just want to have the choice to do so just like others have the choice to drink and drive, smoke, gorge themselves with fast food, jump out of planes, white water raft, or whatever else they that puts them in jeopardy at my possible expense.

FX
09-12-2007, 02:42 PM
Statistics on this issue are crap. Go to a hospital or EMS station and ask for reality. Come on, we can debate this, but you know the reality.

I say enjoy your freedom to ride without a lid. But, put a "Do not resuscitate" order in your wallet when you do.

There, the best of both worlds. If you wreck, you were free to exercise your right to die free and I don't have to pay the bill so your family can watch you vegetate.

You want to be free, but you don't want to free me of my burden in your freedom. That is not freedom my friend.

Choose wisely.

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 02:47 PM
If you look at statistics, the Univ. of Missouri conducted a study and the results were in motorcycel accidents in which the bike's speed was in excess of 17mph the likelihood of the rider who was wearing a helmet is 80 percent more to suffer a broken neck than that of the rider not wearing a helmet. Guess wha? I could probably learn to adapt to life with a broken neck. I could still use a blow tube or my nose to hit the keys on the keyboard. I find adapting to a new way of life to be a more plausible situation than adapting to death.

bufordtpisser
09-12-2007, 03:12 PM
Statistics on this issue are crap. Go to a hospital or EMS station and ask for reality. Come on, we can debate this, but you know the reality.

I say enjoy your freedom to ride without a lid. But, put a "Do not resuscitate" order in your wallet when you do.

There, the best of both worlds. If you wreck, you were free to exercise your right to die free and I don't have to pay the bill so your family can watch you vegetate.

You want to be free, but you don't want to free me of my burden in your freedom. That is not freedom my friend.

Choose wisely.

I do have a living will that says just that. And I do also have a donor designation on my drivers license. I have made an informed decision as to my continuing care. And I still choose to wear a helmet 99.9%of the time.

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 03:25 PM
See, now isn't this the way to debate? Now Buf, if you want to call FX a dick, take it in private, FX, if you feel the same you do the same as well. Ha ha. Seriously, this thread has caused as much debate as any politics or religion thread that RI has had. And the good friendly debating is more than welcomed. You guys know where I stand on helmet usage. FX, you know damn well for me to say there has never been a time I have gotten on the bike after having a few would be a damn lie. Buf, I am sure you have done it, FX, you as well. Wait, the White Russian incident, oops, nevermind. The fact remains I will support anyone's right not to wear a lid as long as the law allows. I just like that added little feeling of safety or confidence wearing my lid. Hell, I am geting older and the reflexes aren't what they used to be. I sure don't need a bump on the noggin to help out matters though.

FX
09-12-2007, 03:45 PM
The issue of responsibility is always clouded by the "freedom" and "rights" chants unfairly by the lobbyists. That is more my problem than anything else.

They can't win this with facts and they know it, so they use innuendo.

The ABATE argument that it's your "right" is weak at best. Drivers have no rights.

If we stick to the basics and the existing laws regarding driving in every state, this issue is stopped at the door.

Perhaps a special insurance rider for heads could be invented. If you can afford a $1,000,000.00 insurance policy for your head, then hey, have at it.

No one's right to anything may infringe on another's freedom. If it does, it's not freedom and it's not right.

bigwater
09-12-2007, 04:25 PM
FX, you know damn well for me to say there has never been a time I have gotten on the bike after having a few would be a damn lie. Buf, I am sure you have done it, FX, you as well. Wait, the White Russian incident, oops, nevermind. The fact remains I will support anyone's right not to wear a lid as long as the law allows.

Interesting thought jr. It stirred my thinking a little bit anyway. Not to swing too far off topic, but I can think of only one time in my whole life that I have ridden my motorcycle without a helmet on a public street, and that was at the last Rider Info meet during bike week last year. I had had a few, and thought "what the hell, the hotel's only a mile away" and I jumped on the bike and rode the bike to the hotel without my helmet.

Now, I can safely say I would not have made that decision had I not had a few because I have always worn a helmet when riding in Florida even though the law doesn't require it, and I always wear my helmet when riding in Georgia regardless of whether or not I've had a few because the law does require it.

Does this say that perhaps the law requiring a helmet could protect me from my own indescretions?

jrbooe
09-12-2007, 04:32 PM
BW, it is sad to say but sometimes laws are written to protect those who cannot, or do not know how, nor care to protect themselves. You have come up with an idea now which I have to ponder. Our indisecretions by going those few times without a lid are more than likely fueled by alcohol or something which causes we who would normaly wear one, not to. I know one thing, whether Georgia had a helmet law or not, especially where you live, I would wear one there, regardless.

Remember, as we all learned in driver's ed. Driving, i.e. riding is not a right but a privilege. Damn, I hate using antiquated cliche's

thebighop
09-12-2007, 07:08 PM
I have heard that some states that don't have mandatory helmet laws require you to carry added insurance...
In those cases, I guess you would be accepting the responsibility that riding without a lid would bring...That responsibility being to have enough coverage to provide for your medical and rehab treatment...
How many of us, would go to a bar expecting someone else to pay for ALL of our drinks? How many of would go to a grocery expecting someone else to pay for ALL of our food? How many of us would expect someone else to pay for ALL of our gas?
Then why would anyone EXPECT the government to pay for ALL of your medical bills from you bashing your noggin against the curb? Especially if you did it of your own accord...
As far as rights go...I agree with most of you that say drivers have none...If a driver had rights, then I would have to believe that we should be entitled to free motorcycles and cars too...It would be my right to have one, wouldn't it?
I don't know of any law that requires you to wear a parachute when you jump out of a plane...Although I am certain that there are those that would jump without one...after a drink or two or no...
It would seem to me that there is no need to implement a law for something like that. I would think COMMON SENSE dictates the use of a parachute when jumping from a plane...unless it's sitting in a hanger on the ground..
I also don't think we need a law to force anyone to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle... I know there are those that are going to forgo a helmet ..just because they can...but to me COMMON SENSE says it's wise to wear one...
Do I always wear one? 99.9% of the time...yes. I like the feeling of the wind in my hair and all that happy horse shit...but because of things like hearing aids and very long hair...I find a helmet does more than just protect me from injury...It provides a buffer from the wind that allows me to hear better when riding, and keeps my DO from getting frizzed and snarled.
If I lived someplace where I was free to go without as helmet...who knows? I may ride without, more often...but because of the damage I have seen that NOT wearing one can do...I would like to think that I would still wear one at least 99% of the time....